Anonymous
Anonymous asked in TravelAfrica & Middle EastIsrael · 1 decade ago

Did Israel bring Gaza to the brink of humanitarian catastrophe?

The UK Guardian reported that an Oxford professor who served in the IDF says that Israel's merciless assault on Gaza has led him to devastating conclusions:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/07/gaza-i...

Do you agree with Professor Shlaim?

Update:

@Camel- interesting background material but you don't address the question or the content of Professor Shlaim's accusations.

Update 2:

@Nada- thank you, that is exactly why I had to re-post this question.

Update 3:

@ jd- I can't delete answers on my own questions. Some of your friends, who don't want the truth known, banded together and had it deleted. Ask them about it.

Update 4:

@Jon- Double standard how?

20 Answers

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  • Rafah
    Lv 5
    1 decade ago
    Best Answer

    Yes, of course "Israel" brought Gaza to the brink of humanitarian catastrophe. And I do agree with Professor Shlaim. I found that to be an excellent, unbiased article.

    "As always, mighty Israel claims to be the victim of Palestinian aggression but the sheer asymmetry of power between the two sides leaves little room for doubt as to who is the real victim."

    And he supports this truth very well. But he does go on to say that Hamas has done bad things as well:

    “To be sure, Hamas is not an entirely innocent party in this conflict. Denied the fruit of its electoral victory and confronted with an unscrupulous adversary, it has resorted to the weapon of the weak - terror. Militants from Hamas and Islamic Jihad kept launching Qassam rocket attacks against Israeli settlements near the border with Gaza until Egypt brokered a six-month ceasefire last June. The damage caused by these primitive rockets is minimal but the psychological impact is immense, prompting the public to demand protection from its government. Under the circumstances, Israel had the right to act in self-defence but its response to the pinpricks of rocket attacks was totally disproportionate. The figures speak for themselves. In the three years after the withdrawal from Gaza, 11 Israelis were killed by rocket fire. On the other hand, in 2005-7 alone, the IDF killed 1,290 Palestinians in Gaza, including 222 children.”

    But anything bad Hamas does is nowhere near as bad as what “Israel” does.

    ---

    It was also nice to read that he was brainwashed like everyone else into thinking that Hamas first broke the ceasefire.

    “It was not Hamas but the IDF that broke the ceasefire. It did so by a raid into Gaza on 4 November that killed six Hamas men. Israel's objective is not just the defence of its population but the eventual overthrow of the Hamas government in Gaza by turning the people against their rulers. And far from taking care to spare civilians, Israel is guilty of indiscriminate bombing and of a three-year-old blockade that has brought the inhabitants of Gaza, now 1.5 million, to the brink of a humanitarian catastrophe."

    Source(s): Thanks for sharing and I hope some "Israel" supporters read it and open their eyes, already!!!
  • I agree 100% but I too, I doubt his real incentive.

    We all know of how untrue these people are with us the non-Jewish.

    Another problem Israel faces is the US and EU constitute less than 14% of the world population.

    The rest of the world (~86% of all people alive today) has ZERO guilt over the so-called "Holocaust" and in fact does NOT care one bit if Israel disappeared tomorrow.

    Couple this with the very real shift in power from the US and EU to the rest of the world, in particular China and Russia, and Israel is setting itself up for a real BAD future.

    I can not understand why the Jews in Palestine can not see that their future is very much in doubt if they don’t figure out a way to reach a fair agreement with the Arabs. Sure, Israel will have to give up lots of land, water and cash, but at least it will have a future.

    If Israel keeps on the current path, it is very likely that one day, the US will not have the power or will to protect Israel and the Arabs will forcibly take back their land.

    Some top brass military officials predict of a new, and real this time "Holocaust" if the Jews continue to support their idiotic ideas.

  • Anonymous
    1 decade ago

    Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005.Under Israel´"cruel occupation",arabs in Gaza had higher income per capita than an average Egyptian or Syrian.Since then,Hamas rules in Gaza "by the wise and just Islamic Sharia laws".

    You had the chance to prove to the world how well you are able to rule the state you so hotly demand- and what your "wise and just islamic Sharia laws" are worth.

    And all the world saw the results and made the conclusion which can be shortly formulated as

    What a useless bunch of losers!

  • 1 decade ago

    Look how many people jump on the bandwagon to say yes, without knowing the facts. While the situation in Gaza is unfortunate, it is not a " humanitarian catastrophe"

    "It is, of course, crowded and poor, but it is better off than nearly all of Africa as well as parts of Asia. There is no acute malnutrition, and infant mortality rates compare with those in Egypt and Jordan, according to Mahmoud Daher of the World Health Organization here.

    This is because although Israel and Egypt have shut the borders for the past three years in an effort to squeeze Hamas, Israel rations aid daily, allowing in about 100 trucks of food and medicine. Military officers in Tel Aviv count the calories to avoid a disaster. And the United Nations agency for Palestinian refugees runs schools and medical clinics that are clean and efficient.

    But there are many levels of deprivation short of catastrophe, and Gaza inhabits most of them. It has almost nothing of a functioning economy apart from basic commerce and farming. Education has declined terribly; medical care is declining.

    There are tens of thousands of educated and ambitious people here, teachers, engineers, translators, business managers, who have nothing to do but grow frustrated. They cannot practice their professions and they cannot leave. They collect welfare and smoke in cafes. A United Nations survey shows a spike in domestic violence."

    -New York Times

    But still, it is okay that he is wrong. In Israel and in other democracies, it is okay to criticize the government without fear of reprisal. Arab members of the Knesset (Israeli Parliament) can criticize Israel more than their counterparts in other governments across the Arab world. In Gaza, supporters of Fatah cannot express themselves freely. Former reporters for the PLO, like Khaled Abu Toameh, cite the censorship of dissident opinions.

    Yes, Israel is wrong in many of its actions, but the propaganda brought against her is wrong and common opinion wrought with double standards.

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  • John E
    Lv 6
    1 decade ago

    If we could travel back in time to an early Zionist meeting my friend, who among us would counsel that the indigenous population will not mind giving up their land for emigrants from another continent, or that it would be moral to simply steal it from them…

    If we could travel back in time to the Wannsee conference in Berlin, who among us would counsel Reinhard Heydrich to speed up the final solution because the Jews that were missed by the final solution would end up causing war that threatens world peace. Just imagine that if Hitler was successful, we would have already achieved world peace.

    My sympathies go out to the innocent lice that were gassed with the Jews (as well).

    During a recent visit to several university campuses in the U.S. , I discovered that there is more sympathy for Hamas there than there is in Ramallah. Listening to some students and professors on these campuses, for a moment Methought I was sitting opposite a Hamas spokesman or a would-be-suicide bomber. I was told, for instance, that Israel has no right to exist, that Israel’s”apartheid system” is worse than the one that existed in South Africa and that Operation Cast Lead was launched only because Hamas was beginning to show signs that it was interested in making peace and not because of the rockets that the Islamic movement was launching at the Israeli illegal communities.

    As such, we should not be surprised if the next generation of jihadists comes not from the Gaza Strip or the mountains and mosques of Pakistan and Afghanistan , but from university campuses across the U.S.

    Maybe this is a sign of health after all my dear friend.

    Greetings

    Source(s): I hope your question dear Mr. natural will not be deleted (once more)
  • 1 decade ago

    Israel argues that there would be no siege if weapons weren't smuggled into Gaza.........

    Call Israel's bluff..........you can talk a big game but you have to call the bluff.

  • Mobius
    Lv 5
    1 decade ago

    Shlaim makes interesting statements:

    1. The establishment of Israel involved a monumental injustice to the Palestinians, yet he never questioned the legitimacy of Israel's existence within its pre-67 borders. That sounds contradictory, but it actually isn't.

    2. The occupation "had very little to do with security and everything to do with territorial expansionism". Yet Israel withdrew from Gaza, and a barrage of rockets followed.

    3. Gaza is "colonial exploitation". Yet during the Oslo era, there was considerable economic growth. The Intifada ended that, and things really went to hell when Hamas took over. Shlaim fails to connect the Intifada and Hamas rocket attacks with their consequences, as if Palestinians are exempt from any responsibility for their own actions.

    4. Israel's withdrawal from Gaza was a West Bank land grab. He gets that from 8,00 withdrawn from Gaza compared to 12,000 more on the West Bank. But the WB number was about the same as the previous year, and about 7,000 were births. So it's pure diversionary claptrap to distract from the fact that Israel withdrew from Gaza.

    5. Hamas became "pragmatic". Except for the rockets.

    6. "It is a war between Israel and the Palestinian people, because the people had elected the party to power." Correct, the election of Hamas was a declaration of war.

    7. "The sheer asymmetry of power between the two sides leaves little room for doubt as to who is the real victim." The usual faulty reasoning. Hamas knew of Israel's military capabilities, yet ignored her warnings and chose to fire more rockets. It's on their heads. At least Shlaim recognizes that Hamas terrorism is wrong.

    Hamas brought Gaza to the brink of humanitarian catastrophe.

  • 1 decade ago

    Avi Shlaim (born October 31, 1945 in Baghdad, Iraq) is an Iraqi-born British historian who identifies ethnically as an Iraqi Jew.

    He served in the Israeli army in 1962, before the 1967 war, than he moved to England.

    So his knowledge is limited to what he reads in El Jazirah.

    I made a wild guess about his period in the Israeli army but later I found this.

    ''Shlaim was born to Jewish parents in Baghdad, Iraq. His family moved to Israel, but he left Israel for England at the age of 16 to study at a Jewish school.[3][4] He returned to Israel in the mid-60s to serve in the Israel Defense Forces, then moved back to England in 1966 to read history at Jesus College, Cambridge. He obtained his MA and married the great-granddaughter of David Lloyd George, who was the British prime minister at the time of the Balfour Declaration. He has lived in England ever since, and holds dual British and Israeli nationality.''

  • Anonymous
    1 decade ago

    The Gaza massacre was the catastrophe of the Jewish race.

    I can't understand how these people did something so bad without thinking of the consequences of their action.

  • Anonymous
    1 decade ago

    To the "brink" of catostrophe? Well I dont know what they classify as catastrophe these days but what I witnessed was far beyond the "brink" of catastrophe!

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