"Israel acting like Nazis in Gaza"?
UK Jewish MP:
"Israel was born out of Jewish Terrorism" Tzipi Livnis Father was a Terrorist" Astonishing claims in the House of Parliament. SIR Gerald Kaufman, the veteran Labour MP, yesterday compared the actions of Israeli troops in Gaza to the Nazis who forced his family to flee Poland.
During a Commons debate on the fighting in Gaza, he urged the government to impose an arms embargo on Israel.
Sir Gerald, who was brought up as an orthodox Jew and Zionist, said: "My grandmother was ill in bed when the Nazis came to her home town a German soldier shot her dead in her bed.
"My grandmother did not die to provide cover for Israeli soldiers murdering Palestinian grandmothers in Gaza. The present Israeli government ruthlessly and cynically exploits the continuing guilt from gentiles over the slaughter of Jews in the Holocaust as justification for their murder of Palestinians."
He said the claim that many of the Palestinian victims were militants "was the reply of the Nazi" and added: "I suppose the Jews fighting for their lives in the Warsaw ghetto could have been dismissed as militants."
He accused the Israeli government of seeking "conquest" and added: "
They are not simply war criminals, they are fools."
"Palestinians are treated like dirt by Israeli's"
"They're (Israel) not simply war criminals, they're fools"
Do you agree with this man, who has visited Israel "countless times" ?
WOOZY - I'm Atheist and even Jews living in Israel hate Israel you moron.
- Anonymous10 years agoFavorite Answer
Yes I do.
Fair played to Sir Gerald (Jew & Zionist) for saying it. Its a great speech.
- Jabber wockLv 710 years ago
While Zionism started as a laudable goal to establish a Jewish homeland, NOT at the expense of the indigenous people, it got hijacked by extremists who indeed turned to terrorism (e.g. Lehi, Irgun) to establish modern Israel as a Jewish state by ejecting the majority of non-Jews. They started attacking the British *during* WW II, even when many Palestinian Jews (as well as Arabs) were fighting for the British against the Nazis.
I think it should be seen in the context of the other extremist "isms" of the 1850s-1950s, such as communism, nazism and fascism, which wound each other up and were mutually antagonistic. While many of them started with understandable goals, they quickly became autocratic and extremist. They frequently used the extremism of the others as "justification" for their own extremism.
Zionism just went the same way, and modern Israel is still struggling to decide if it's a modern democratic secular nation that should be fair to ALL its people, or whether it's an extremist tribal state that supports ethnic cleansing and dispossession of people because of their ethnicity, religion or political aspirations. The demonisation of Palestinians is part of their "justification".
It's similar to the dilemma of the Republika Srpska, which established itself in the 1990s by ethnically cleansing most non-Serbs, but also contains moderates who want fairness and a better future.
So far the extremist one is predominating, but that may not always be the case as there are many Israelis who would prefer the fair and moderate version. This is mirrored by extremists vs moderates amongst the Palestinians, though arguably their enforced dispossession gives them some justification for anger. On both sides the hawks have been dominating the doves, and that keeps the whole mess continuing.
Sir Gerald Kaufman's words are indeed wise ones.
@Don't call me Dude:
I think "Apartheid" is an excellent comparison. It's a slow but steady cultural and economic erosion, not a deliberate genocide. By the 1980s most white South Africans found themselves caught in the trap of a situation created by their forbearers, but who themselves didn't want to be unfair. They were out of step with the way of the world, but were afraid of succumbing to extremists on the other side. It meant that sooner or later the moderates had to take that step of major change, as long as that was mirrored by the dispossessed also doing so in tandem, to reach a mutual goal.
Israel/Plaestine has yet to do so, and it is the extremists who are still ruling the roost and co-opting their populations by enhancing the fear and mistrust factor. As it is Israel who is the militarily powerful party, the key to change will be it making that first step, but I don't think it is ready to do so.
- BMCRLv 710 years ago
Oh, someone else bringing up his Jewishness as a "talking point" and "my parents/grandparents/myself went through the Holocaust" as a "talking point"?
And yet someone else (you) bringing up what he said as if that provides you with an actual argument?
The reality is as follows:
While it is true that you can find some Jews who are anti Israel and yes, some of them live in Israel, by and large the majority of Jews are not anti Israel. Thus, the person you quote is in the minority.
As is the case, his, ahem, opinion, on Israel has NO MORE or LESS moral authority than mine, or yours.
So, all I will say on the matter is that if someone stoops to the the level of doing the the "Nazi analogy" and comparing a clear terrorist organization (one that is recognized as such by his OWN government) to the people fighting Nazis in the Warsaw ghetto, then he merely demonstrates that he is willing to engage in hateful over the top rhetoric.
He is also quoted as saying:
"Hamas is a deeply nasty organisation, but it was democratically elected, and it is the only game in town. The boycotting of Hamas, including by our Government, has been a culpable error, from which dreadful consequences have followed."
So, in other words, he agrees that they are "deeply nasty" but feels free in comparing them to the fighters in the Warsaw ghetto. He stops short of labeling them terrorists (wonder what's preventing him?). He says they were democratically elected, but I should note that so were the Nazis themselves. In other words, just like it was irrelevant that the Nazis were elected (since they were fascist) so too it is irrelevant that Hamas was elected (since they are terrorists).
And if they are a "deeply nasty" bunch, then one wonders why he thinks that the UK government "boycotting them" is an error? Would taking them off the terrorist list make them less nasty?
And if they are a nasty bunch and the "only game in town" then does that therefore not imply that Israel should deal with the "only game in town who happens to be very nasty" using military action or at least have that option?
- 10 years ago
In terms of historical accuracy I would put Israel/Palestine as being more comparable with the way Europeans treated Americans, Africans and Asians in general, rather than the way Nazis treated Jews. Slow slaughter by income and supply restriction, by passbook, and with the regularly-scheduled display atrocity, is not quite the same as systematic industrial slaughter.
It's apartheid, not Auschwitz.
However, Kaufman _is_ in a certain sense appealing to at least some Jews himself, so you've got to use the comparisons already up in the discussion.
As an anti-Zionist of Jewish ancestry, yes, in general I'd agree with the MP.
As a socialist republican I detest applauding someone with "Sir" as their title, but -- good job, dude.
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- Anonymous10 years ago
That person spoke the truth, "The CORE issues of the Palestinian-Israeli are the collective dispossession and ethnic cleansing (compulsory population transfer to achieve political objectives) of the Palestinian people for the past six decades. In our opinion, the conflict would have been at the same level of intensity even if both parties had been Jewish, Muslims, or Christians."Source(s): Palestinian-Israeli Conflict For Beginners Posted on December 18, 2001 http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-...
- 7 years ago
No, since you are obviously anti Israel, they did not come from terrorism, but were victims of terrorism. If a country is attacked, it has the right to defend itself. Lobbiing bombs into residential areas is attacks.
- ?Lv 410 years ago
Israel is a corrupt nation just like every other nation on earth. The U.S and the U.K have murdered plenty of innocent civilians in their 'War on Terror'. You give any nation authority over an enemy and they'll prove how ugly government gets when it's run by bloodsucking liars.
Hamas is no different. They are all religious idiots who think they are the 'chosen ones'. This is one of the MANY reasons I despise religion.Source(s): If the people of Israel don't like what their government is doing they have nobody to blame but themselves for electing a war monger. Same as the U.S electing a war monger and now a puppet.
- Anonymous10 years ago
Israel is an apartheid and fascist state.
Israel illegally dispossessed Palestine, and Palestinians have been facing sixty-two years of oppression, homes demolished, Jewish settlements expanding, massacres, sieges, blockades, raids, curfews, the apartheid wall, checkpoints, discrimination, they have exiled, forced to flee, living in refugee camps (including my grandparents), short supplies, abuse from Israeli authorities and settlers...I could go on...
Apparently, god is a real estate agent and they are the chosen ones *rolls eyes*.
You would think the holocaust would instill the tiniest bit of compassion in these people. No, they exploit it and hang on western sympathies in order to vindicate their organised ethnic cleansing against Palestinians.Source(s): I'm Australian Palestinian
- oldandtiredLv 710 years ago
I just hope he doesn't suddenly die of some mysterious "accident" like happens to so many people who have the guts to tell the truth. Truth is, and has always been, the enemy of any authority figure.
- Anonymous10 years ago
i do not agree with this man nor with you. It seems like you al full with hate towards Israel. You aren't any different then you claim they are. Think about it. Wake up look at the mirror ask yourself why do I hate the other and blame them
Good luck friend.
Jesus has died for you?
If you are muslims what tells Muhammad to you hate o0r love the other?
werent you rissen with values? Look at the mouth and words you use. How can you say and be trustful with a mouth full of nonsense. You argue and statement do not make sense. There are muslims and jews living together. Jews have to protect themselves against the evil. Have you ever been there? Take a trip visit Israel and take a few steps in Palestina not even GAza you will see who is blessed and who isnt. But you the one to blame for more evil on this site stop poiting and make love
all of you who agree on the palestine are blind. You agree on terrorism. Do your homework. Palestines never had land before. It is not a invasion The jews were there before the arabic world went on a jew hunt