The Fine tuning universe as evidence for creator ?

English is not my native language, I apologize for any misspellings.

I'm atheist but little part of my mind believe in creator. I didn't say God, I said creator.

Now, what I'm going to say next is not evidence for the Christian God or the Jewish God or whatever, I juts saying that make me kind of believe in creator or a designer.

There is something called "Fine tuning universe". Everything in the beginning of the universe looked as if it was getting read for us, the gravity...etc should have been the exact tun for life to show up.

" Fine-tuning refers to the surprising precision of nature’s physical constants, and the beginning state of the Universe. To explain the present state of the universe, even the best scientific theories require that the physical constants of nature and the beginning state of the Universe have extremely precise values. "

"The more I examine the universe, and the details of its architecture, the more evidence I find that the Universe in some sense must have known we were coming." — Freeman Dyson

"A bottom-up approach to cosmology either requires one to postulate an initial state of the Universe that is carefully fine-tuned — as if prescribed by an outside agency — or it requires one to invoke the notion of eternal inflation, a mighty speculative notion to the generation of many different Universes, which prevents one from predicting what a typical observer would see." — Stephen Hawking and Thomas Hertog2

Doesn't that prove somehow that there are a creator or some Intelligent designer ?

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  • .
    Lv 7
    7 years ago
    Favorite Answer

    Some examples of the degree of fine tuning you are talking about and why

    http://creation.com/the-universe-is-finely-tuned-f...

    More on intelligent design and its flaws

    http://creation.com/cmis-views-on-the-intelligent-...

    The ultimate answer is Jesus did it. He is the God who created it all, laid claim to it throughout history and proved His love for us by dying in our place. He is the living evidence.

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  • 7 years ago

    To explain the present state of the universe, even the best scientific theories require that the physical constants of nature and the beginning state of the Universe have extremely precise values. "

    - the one thing that is missing from that statement is "to explain the present state of the universe FOR US". The universe could have been put together much differently but "humans" may not have been part of that universe. So if you "believe" in a creator you are the ultimate in arrogance to think it was all done for you. Maybe he was throwing dice and this universe was what came up and he does not give a rat's patootie about how it came about. Since if there is a creator, time is meaningless, so he would not care how any particular universe turned out, but you think you are significant enough to warrant this universe as for you.

    "The more I examine the universe, and the details of its architecture, the more evidence I find that the Universe in some sense must have known we were coming." — Freeman Dyson

    - Maybe, but that does not mean the previous universe or the next universe will have anything resembling humans.

    as if prescribed by an outside agency

    - The operative words are - AS IF - meaning that it "looks" like it was done this way, not that it was, just that it looks like it.

    Doesn't that prove somehow that there are a creator or some Intelligent designer ?

    - No, but it does prove that some things LOOK like there might have been a creator.

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  • Mia
    Lv 7
    7 years ago

    I don't find the fine tuning argument very credible. If you study evolution or evolutionary biology you see that evidence indicates life evolves in the conditions present rather than conditions being 'created' for it. There may be a range of conditions that are within limits for life but they vary and can arise in a place as large as the universe in some locations by natural odds. On the flip side a lot of the universe doesn't support life and even where it does the environments are often not stable long term and many species die out when conditions change. None of that seems to require or suggest a sentient god at work.

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  • neil s
    Lv 7
    7 years ago

    No. First, given an eternity within which to produce alternative universes with alternative balance(s) of laws, the likelihood of finding this particular balance of laws approaches 100%. Second, this universe is "fine tuned" to produce black holes. Life is a fringe, highly scarce byproduct of that tendency. Third, it is not obvious that the kind of life we see is the only (logically) possible form. A universe with different variables may well have simply produced a distinct form of life. Third, if statistical unlikelihood is used to argue for the need for a designer, then lotteries must be fixed, and the flour I recently dropped on the floor could only have formed the pattern it did on purpose. In other words, the fine tuning argument is basically the baseless claim that the more random something appears the less random it actually is. Finally, we should consider the alternative. Life formed in terms of the laws we see, so of course it fits them. This is no more surprising than (to paraphrase Douglas Adams) the fact that the water in a puddle happens to fit the hole its in.

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  • 7 years ago

    I can perfectly see why anybody might think that this amazing world had to be created, that there must be a God/gods but you can't just say "there's a God because the world is beautiful" you have to account for bone cancer in children.

    In very basic terms my understanding from reading Stephen Hawking's "A Brief History of Time" would be that he believes the universe came out of a black hole. In a black hole everything is distorted and therefore there would be no space/time for a creator /designer to exist in.

    The two main explanations for our planet's friendliness to life are the design theory and the anthropic approach. (Design being that the world was made, put in the Goldilocks zone, deliberately set up for our benefit and anthropic having a faintly Darwinian feel that because the vast majority of planets are not suited to life we necessarily have to be on one of them just by thinking about it).

    The main problem I see is shared by Richard Dawkins in his infamous "God Delusion" (he calls it the "Ultimate Boeing 747 Gambit) and it is if the universe was created then who created the creator? Instead of terminating the problem in saying there was a creator poses an even bigger issue than offering any solution.

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  • Zvi
    Lv 7
    7 years ago

    The concept of a multiverse suggests such a huge number of separate universes that the precise details found in this one are not at all surprising.

    To put it another way, if you flip a coin often enough, you will eventually get a sequence of 100 straight heads. Or a thousand. But it may take a very long time.

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  • 7 years ago

    We have been shaped by the universe we exist in.

    To say the universe was shaped for us, is to look at a puddle, note how the pothole perfectly accommodates it, despite its complex shape, correctly conclude it cant be a coincidence, but erroneously conclude it therefore must have been designed or intended for it.

    That's silly, and when you consider why, you'll understand the problem with your reasoning.

    We are the fluid thing within something which was here before us.

    The illusion of tuning only stands up if you forget that water takes the shape of the hole it sits in, and assume that the puddle and its shape were intended to be as such, then a container made for it.

    The fine tuning argument can be summarised as "if things were different, other things would be different."

    To which the only necessary response is "things are the way they are, therefore so are other things."

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  • 4 years ago

    it isn't effective data. the international we stay to inform the tale isn't very finely tuned for existence. various the planet is thoroughly uninhabitable to people and people are meant to be the particular, loved creations of regardless of god you're speaking about. The planet isn't even finely tuned interior the picture voltaic gadget to help existence. The planet might want to bypass a lot in route of or far off from the solar and lets nonetheless exist. The high-quality tuning argument is style of a puddle that assumes that the hollow it sits in grow to be specifically designed to carry that puddle.

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  • 7 years ago

    The fine tuning argument is valid, but only if the universe only gets one chance of existing and can only be the way it is, in terms of physical constants, starting conditions, etc. We have no reason to think that either of those is true. There could be an infinite number of possible universes, most of which don't have life in them.

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  • Tyvern
    Lv 7
    7 years ago

    You're arguing the Strong Anthropic Principle. This isn't a bad argument for some sort of Creator in itself, but when used to support the existence of a theistic deity, you run into a massive problem.

    "If you were to accept this argument, then the FAP would be the logical conclusion after the SAP, especially if you believe the Participatory Anthropic Principle as well. If the Universe is indeed made for the benefit of intelligence, and the Universe in fact needs intelligent observers to exist, then it would be in the Universe’s “interest” to keep intelligence going. Therefore, according to those who subscribe to this theory, intelligent life will never die out."

    This is incompatible with the apocalyptic stories found in many religions, especially what is said in Revelation.

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  • Anonymous
    7 years ago

    That so called "Fine Tuned" universe that would KILL us Instantly if we ventured off this Little planet without MASSIVE amounts of scientific support mechanisms?

    the Fine Tuned universe where Quasars shoot out Gigantic bolts of directional radiation, that if one was aimed at this Planet..it would FRY all Life on it in an instant?

    The Fine Tuned universe where black holes consume suns and Galaxies and NOTHING can escape but radiation?

    and OUR Fine tuned Planet,,where we would die again almost instantly on so much of it's surface again if we ventured there without massive scientific support mechanisms?

    That fine tunes universe and Planet?

    don't make me Laugh!

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