Is there any evidence that Jesus and his apostles even existed?

And give me something other than the Josephus' account (which is a proven forgery).

It seems strange that for a guy who was an alleged son god, Jesus didn't care to keep a journal or anything and nobody thought he was important enough to write about him in his lifetime. The only other account is one of Tacitus from 2nd century AD and Tacitus only mentioned that there was a cult that called themselves Christians...he never confirmed that a guy named Jesus ever existed.

Update:

You're using the Bible to prove that Jesus existed?You serious,mate?

...thats like using Lord of The Ring books to prove that Frodo existed...

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  • 7 years ago
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    Is there any evidence that Jesus and his apostles existed?

    You reject Flavius Josephus. His account is NOT proven to be a forgery, it is alleged to be a forgery by some people who have a religious motive to discount the historicity of this account. They cannot point to any manuscript that would indicate another version of the text which describes Jesus, as being an earlier non forgery version of the text. In short, they are speculating, not proving.

    You reject Tacitus, since he only describes the followers of Christ, in about 116 AD, or about 80-85 years after the crucifixion. Your rejection of this is illogical. What mechanism do you propose to explain the formation of a new religion, within the life time of those that could be eye witnesses to the events, and becoming so large as to require suppression by the government? Surely, if it was all made up SOMEONE would have made mention of the fact “I was in Jerusalem at that time and I never saw anything like they said happening.”

    But ok, you want other non-biblical references.

    Thallus the Samaritan, writing circa 52 AD, or within 19 year of the crucifixion, is quoted in Julius Africanus’ work Chronology, 18:1, making mention of the darkness that fell on the land at the execution of Christ and how he explained it as a solar eclipse. Africanus rightly shows that as the Passover occurred near a full moon, and solar eclipses cannot happen during full moons (the moon being on the wrong side of the earth to have that happen).

    Pliny the Younger – writing about 112 AD to Emperor Trajan describes how the Christians sang songs to Jesus, as a God. In this he is differentiating between Jesus the human and Jesus the God. This is an admission of Jesus as a human being.

    Seutonius – Writing the official history of Emperor Claudius mentions that Claudius had the Jews expelled from Rome because of the troubles with Chrestus, or Christ. This is also recorded in the epistle to the Hebrews.

    Mara Bar-Serapion was a Syrian who wrote about Jesus Christ sometime around A.D. 73. He left a legacy manuscript to his son Serapion. The letter is now in the possession of the British Museum. In it he describes the death of Jesus. Obviously you have to have lived, to have died.

    The Babylonian Talmud – Written by the enemies of Christ it states.

    “On the eve of the Passover Yeshu [Jesus] was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, "He is going to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy. Anyone who can say anything in his favor, let him come forward and plead on his behalf." But since nothing was brought forward in his favor he was hanged on the eve of the Passover.” - Babylonia Sanhedrin 43A.

    This shows that Jesus lived, he performed supernatural things, he was crucified or hanged on the eve of Passover. No defense was offered for him. All this agrees with scripture.

    Now think about this for a minute. This is a TON of information about the man we know as Jesus and all of it comes from witnesses who were HOSTILE to the truth claims of Christianity! And from ANCIENT sources, none the less! Now let’s go back to what we know about the time in which Jesus lived and the climate in which historians and theologians were writing. Remember that:

    1. There are amazingly few manuscripts of ANY text written during Jesus’ time

    2. Historians of this period wrote amazingly little about religious figures anyway

    3. Jesus was active for an amazingly short period of time (just three years)

    4. Jesus ministered in an amazingly remote corner of the Roman Empire

    The key word here in “AMAZING”! it is amazing that there is ANY extra-Biblical information about Jesus at all, let alone this MUCH information about Him. That’s why so many of us who have come to trust that Jesus really did live and really was who He said He was, find that the hostile historical witness is a powerful evidence of the truth of the Bible.

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  • 7 years ago

    Short answer: The evidence shows that Jesus Christ is just a mythical character and never existed.

    For Jesus-believers, here's the long answer (with supporting evidence), which is needed to cover all bases:

    All reliable evidence points to Jesus Christ being just a myth. There is no reliable evidence that Jesus even existed, and significant evidence that he didn't. The evidence is in the Bible, the other religions of the time, the lack of writings about Jesus by any historians of the 1st century, and the lack of writings about Jesus by anyone until over a decade after his supposed life.

    If Jesus had actually existed, Paul would have written about his life, disciples, teachings and miracles. Paul did not write about any of this. Paul even wrote (1 Cor. 1:22-23) that Jesus did no miracles. Paul wrote (in Rom. 16:25-26, Gal. 1:11,12) that he knew Jesus through revelation, which is another term for fantasy and delusions. To Paul, Jesus was largely a sky-god who existed in the spiritual past. We can also tell that people were accusing Paul of lying, because he attempted to defend himself in Rom. 3:5-8.

    Paul also thought that Peter and James were other (competing) epistle writers. Paul wrote in Gal. 2:6 that the apostles in Jerusalem (including James and Cephas/Peter) added nothing to his message, and in Gal. 2:11 he opposed Cephas/Peter. Neither statement makes sense if they had known a real Jesus.

    If Jesus had actually existed, the gospels would have been written in first person format. Instead, they were written (in Greek) by unknown authors in third person fiction format, often with the supposed thoughts of Jesus. The gospels should also have been original. Instead, Matthew and Luke extensively plagiarized from Mark. The gospels don't even claim to be eyewitness accounts. All we have are hearsay accounts.

    If Jesus Christ had actually existed, at least one of the approximately 30 local historians of the first century would have written about him. No historian of the first century (including Josephus and Philo of Alexandria) wrote about him or his disciples. For the simple logic that shows how we know that the two purported Josephus references to Jesus are forgeries, see the 1st link below.

    Therefore Jesus Christ did not exist.

    The Jesus story also shows extensive similarities to other myths of the time (especially Horus, Mithra, Osiris, and Dionysus). Some early Christians attributed these similarities to Satan who went back in time and created the religions that "copied" Christianity.

    Jesus is worshiped on Sunday, like over a dozen sun gods whose birthdays were also on the old winter solstice of December 25, when the sun is “reborn.” There were also over a dozen other deities and saviors who were resurrected (often after violent deaths).

    For much more evidence, see the links.

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  • 7 years ago

    Would you accept Chaucer, in the Canterbury Tales? The priest believed it. I don't have the English of that period but a more modern rendering goes something like this:

    "But of Christ's lore, and His apostles twelve,

    He taught, but also followed it himself".

    But hundreds of years before, Pliny and Trajan (the Roman emperor) exchanged letters on what to do with Christians. Why not take a look at any book on Church history and research this further, for yourself? You'll find a more objective narrative there than you could expect on this forum. The sad thing is that several people have posted similar questions but it's obvious they have no intention of even looking into something for themselves--they would rather rant, or repost or rehash something that somebody else has stated in the past. Seems to me if someone wants information, why not look for it for themselves?

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  • Moi
    Lv 7
    7 years ago

    Probably nothng that would work for some

    But we believe God for his every word. And thats all the proof we will ever need.

    You are only hurting yourself with disbelief.

    Jhn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    Hbr 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

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  • 7 years ago

    There's Tacitus', Mara Bar Sarapion's, and Suetonius' accounts, as well as accounts of Jesus in the Talmud.

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  • Olly
    Lv 5
    7 years ago

    Jesus never wrote anything himself.

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  • 7 years ago

    For your interest...

    " According to the Roman historian Tacitus:

    Emperor Nero

    Besides being put to death they [the Christians] were made to serve as objects of amusement; they were clad in the hides of beast and torn to death by dogs; others were crucified, others set on fire to serve to illuminate the night when daylight failed. Nero had thrown open his grounds for the display, and was putting on a show in the circus, where he mingled with the people in the dress of a charioteer or drove about in his chariot. All this gave rise to a feeling of pity, even toward men whose guilt merited the most exemplary punishment; for it was felt that they were being destroyed not for the public good but to satisfy the cruelty of an individual. {13}"

    ...

    "In the face of persecution, many Christians chose to die before they would deny their Lord. Those who did so came to be called martyrs, which means "witnesses." The second-century theologian Tertullian had converted to Christianity based in part on his wonder at Christians' faithfulness in the face of martyrdom and it clearly had a similar effect on others as well. It was Tertullian who famously declared, "The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church." Indeed, persecution seemed to have a dramatic effect on Christianity's numbers, but not in the direction intended by the persecutors.

    A second response of the church to Roman persecution was to write apologies, or defenses, of the Christian faith. The bishops and leaders who wrote these defenses are known as the Apologists. Writing especially in the 2nd century AD, the Apologists' primary goal was to defend Christianity against pagan accusations and misconceptions in an effort to stop the persecution. Thus they often addressed their works to Roman emperors. The Apologists explained, for example, that the Christian "love feast" did not involve cannibalism or orgies as many thought, but was a sacred meal of bread and wine in honor of Christ's death. "

    http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/history/...

    Chapter I.—Address.

    To the Emperor Titus Ælius Adrianus Antoninus Pius Augustus Cæsar, and to his son Verissimus the Philosopher, and to Lucius the Philosopher, the natural son of Cæsar, and the adopted son of Pius, a lover of learning, and to the sacred Senate, with the whole People of the Romans, I, Justin, the son of Priscus and grandson of Bacchius, natives of Flavia Neapolis in Palestine, present this address and petition in behalf of those of all nations who are unjustly hated and wantonly abused, myself being one of them.

    http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.toc.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didache

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  • 7 years ago

    The gospels were written by those 4 (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) around Jesus.

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  • 7 years ago

    The story is a myth taken from earlier Egyptian myths.

    No real people involved.

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  • 6 years ago
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