Why do trinitarian translators omit words in their choice KJB and accuse the JW of restoring Jehovah's name to his word?
1 Corinthians 7:5 and 1 John 5:7. Why the discrepancies in other trinitarian Bibles? Wasn't the KJB written by 50 scholars?
Why do Orthodox and Catholics take pride in a Bible written by Anglicans?
- TeeMLv 76 months agoBest Answer
*** Rbi8 p. 1580 6B “Three Witness Bearers” ***
6B “Three Witness Bearers”
“For there are three witness bearers, the spirit and the water and the blood, and the three are in agreement.”—1Jo 5:7, 8.
This rendering is in agreement with the Greek [Master] texts by C. Tischendorf (eighth ed., 1872); Westcott and Hort (1881); Augustinus Merk (ninth ed., 1964); José María Bover (fifth ed., 1968); United Bible Societies (third ed., 1975); Nestle-Aland (26th ed., 1979).
After “witness bearers” the cursive mss No. 61 (16th century) and No. 629 (in Latin and Greek, 14th to 15th century) and Vgc add the words: “in heaven, the Father, the Word and the holy spirit; and these three are one. (8) And there are three witness bearers on earth.” But these words are omitted by אABVgSyh,p.
So according to one answer, Jehovah's Witnesses are wrong, even though they are using non-Witnesses scholars whose master texts are the basis for the majority of our modern translations of God's Word.
NWT: (1 John 5:7, 8) “7 For there are three witness bearers: 8 the spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.”
NASB: [1 John 5:7,8] 7 For there are three that testify [fn]: 8 the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
[fn] A few late mss add ...in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. And there are three that testify on earth, the Spirit
It makes wonder why she doesn't include the NASB, and the ESV in her attempt to 'prove' the NWT to be wrong.
Oh wait a minute, these trinitarian bibles agree with the NWT.
Another interesting note:
NEWTON WRESTLES WITH THE TRINITY DOCTRINE
In his writings, Newton gave much attention to the doctrine of the Trinity. One of his most outstanding contributions to the Biblical scholarship of the time was his work An Historical Account of Two Notable Corruptions of Scripture, first published in 1754, twenty-seven years after his death. It reviewed all the textual evidence available from ancient sources on two Bible passages, at First John 5:7 and First Timothy 3:16.
In the King James Version Bible, First John 5:7 reads:
“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”
Using early Church writers, the Greek and Latin manuscripts and the testimony of the first versions of the Bible, Newton proved that the words “in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one,” in support of the Trinity doctrine, did not appear in the original inspired Greek Scriptures. He then traced the way in which the spurious reading crept into the Latin versions, first as a marginal note, and later into the text itself. He showed that it was first taken into a Greek text in 1515 by Cardinal Ximenes on the strength of a late Greek manuscript corrected from the Latin. Finally, Newton considered the sense and context of the verse, concluding,
“Thus is the sense plain and natural, and the argument full and strong; but if you insert the testimony of ‘the Three in Heaven’ you interrupt and spoil it.”
Perhaps the best summary of Isaac Newton’s Scriptural arguments for his repudiation of the Trinity is found in fourteen ‘Argumenta,’ written in Latin, giving Bible citations for many of them. Numbers four to seven are particularly interesting:
4. Because God begot the Son at some time, he had not existence from eternity. Proverbs 8:23, 25.
5. Because the Father is greater than the Son. John 14:28.
6. Because the Son did not know his last hour. Mark 13:32, Matt. 24:36, Rev. 1:1, 5:3.
7. Because the Son received all things from the Father.”
The bias against Jehovah's Witnesses cloud the minds of our opposers, so even when we are in agreement, we are still wrong.
- daylily61Lv 66 months ago
Jehovah's Witness bait question.
- LudwigLv 66 months ago
I think mostly, Greek Orthodox take pride in bibles written in Greek. By apostles and things. Roman Catholics got a bunch of Italians in Rome who sorted their bible out some time ago.
- capitalgentlemanLv 76 months ago
At the seminary I attended, we were invited to use whatever Bible we wished, but, NO-ONE used the KJV. Or the JW Bible either, come to that.
Christians ARE Trinitarian. JW's are not. Christians far outnumber JW's. While we do not vote on what is correct, the fact that Christians number in the billions, and JW's do no suggests that Christians have the right of it.
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- NousLv 76 months ago
Oh p[lease stop trying to pretend you could possibly be part of the 2,000 year old Christian religion when JWs are a mere 148 year old pretend religion seeking to rewrite the bible and claiming only they can be Chrsitan!
- Chris AncorLv 76 months ago
That's what happens when one copies other peoples fiction.
- Annsan_In_HimLv 76 months ago
Your 1 Cor 7:5 ref. is in a section addressed to married Christians, the husband and the wife, urging them not to deprive each other of their marital dues (sex) apart from agreeing to draw apart for prayer. They must then come together again (sexually). Whether you read the KJV or the JW version or any other that I know of, there is no part of that verse that could possibly contain a word about God, that was missed out in the JKV. It seems that you have provided a wrong reference. So I move on.
First, none of the many scholars who produced the KJV in the English languages wrote the Bible. They worked from Bible manuscripts in the original languages of the Bible, and corrected many mistakes in existing English translations, because most of them had worked from Latin translations, resulting in a translation of a translation, which is never a good idea.
The pedigree of manuscripts worked from were the ancient ones, now known as "The Received Text" which is what the KJV used. But translations from the mid1800s onward have nearly always deviated from that, working from a different batch of manuscripts. The NWT follows the Greek text of Anglican scholars Westcott & Hort, but deviates from their text in places where the full deity of Christ is shown, and the NWT also adds words in English that simply are not there in the Greek text. Those additions change the meaning of the texts so perhaps you could make that your next question.
1 John 6 to 7 read in the KJV, "This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
The JW version (the NWT) reads, "This is he that came by means of water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only but with the water and with the blood. And the spirit is that which is bearing witness, because the spirit is the truth. For there are three witness bearers, the spirit, and the water and the blood, and the three are in agreement."
The manuscript version used by the JW Bible, however, produced by Anglican scholars Westcott and Hort in 1881, has a literal Greek translation of the last phrase in question - "and the three into the one (thing) are." That's in the KIT Interlinear of the JWs and its footnote says, "literally 'the three (witness bearers) are for the one thing" but their Appendix excuses their translation. There the JWs appeal to other Greek texts that support their version, all produced in the 1900s.
The ancient Latin Vulgate Bible reads "For there are three that testify in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. And there are three that testify on earth, the.... are in agreement." The JW Appendix claims that the words "in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one, and there are three witness bearers on earth" are additions to older manuscripts.
However, what the JWs will not admit to is that there are Latin manuscripts from the 6th century A.D. that DO contain the trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit! Protestant apologist Bruce Metzger also agrees and says in, "A Textual Commentary of the Greek N.T" (1975 pp 716-718) that the phrase is first found in the treatise, ‘Liber Apologeticus’ of the 4th century and in Old Latin & Vulgate Bible manuscripts beginning in the 6th century.
John Gill's commentary on 1 John 5:7 says this is referred to by Tertullian about the year 200 - "The text is found in 8 extant Greek manuscripts and 5 of them dated before the 16th century. [Greek miniscules 88, 221, 429, 629 & 636]. There are at least 8,000 extant Latin MSS and many of them contain 1 John 5:7, the really important ones being the Old Latin which Church Fathers, such as Tertullian (A.D. 155-220) and Cyprian (200-258) used."
Clearly, those most ancient of sources are not good enough for the JWs because they decided in the early 1900s that Jesus is not God and must not be worshipped. So when they came out with their own version of the Bible, the NWT, in the late 1950s, they dropped such clear testimony to the triune Being of God. Ultimately, the reason is that they almost despise the blessed Holy Spirit, who is God, speaking of Him as "it" and just being like a utilitarian energy, like electricity. That is why they do not have His truthful witness.
- Anonymous6 months ago
You don't see that the CREATOR of EVERYTHING must ve God?
Since WHEN can man create out of what is not seen?
SON...OF...GOD ..must be God to be the ONLY begotten SON.
Jesus took ON human form..
Jesus could never come to this sinful earth in full divinity or everything would ve destroyed.
Jesus MUST be God to be Savior.
Get out of false teachings, be saved.
- Climate RealistLv 76 months ago
No one restored Jehovah's name. The word, "Jehovah" was made up by a medieval monk. No one knows how YHWH was pronounced and is not in any Greek New Testament manuscripts.