If atheists only believe in what can be proven and tested by the scientific method, then how do they expect a divine being, assuming something like that exists (something we have never seen and does not take the shape of something we can comprehend), to be tested by the scientific method when it is outside of laws of physics, biology and all that we know?
Is it so irrational to assume that an entity like that had no beginning as they are not subject to the laws of physics? And just because we can’t comprehend something not having a beginning, doesn’t mean it’s not possible. (Assuming they’re are outside the laws of physics, anything we deem impossible is most certainly possible)
- RichardLv 64 weeks ago
Simply put, science can't investigate magic, and it is up to the person positing an assertion to provide evidence for it.
- WundtLv 74 weeks ago
If you believe in an intercessional God (a God who answers prayers and directly influences the outcome of our lives according to a plan) then such a God would be observable by the rules of evidence. E.g. people who pray or who are prayed for recover from cancer more often. Or, regions with more believers would have fewer natural disasters or lower crime rates. In fact, believers MAKE THESE CLAIMS, however, we can look at the evidence and see that belief does not help avoid disasters, or get over cancer, or reduce the crime rate. This basic contradiction (the lack of evidence for an intercessional God) is why we can say "There is no evidence for God."
- Anonymous4 weeks ago
Do not fret because of those who are evil or be envious of those who do wrong; for like the grass they will soon wither, like green plants they will soon die away.
Trust in the LORD and do good. Dwell in the land and enjoy safe pasture.
Take delight in the LORD, and he will give you the desires of your heart. Commit your way to the LORD; trust in him and he will do this: He will make your righteous reward shine like the dawn, your vindication like the noonday sun.
Be still before the LORD and wait patiently for him; do not fret when people succeed in their ways, when they carry out their wicked schemes.
Refrain from anger and turn from wrath; do not fret—it leads only to evil.
NOTE: *In other words* if you allow yourself to be irritated by them, you have become part of the problem.
For those who are evil will be destroyed, but those who hope in the LORD will inherit the land.
A little while, and the wicked will be no more; though you look for them, they will not be found.
But the meek will inherit the land and enjoy peace and prosperity.
The wicked plot against the righteous and gnash their teeth at them;
but the Lord laughs at the wicked, for he knows their day is coming.
Please follow these divine instructions! To experience God, you've got to do what He requires.... not just read it.
STOP TRUSTING IN MERE HUMANS,
who have but a breath in their nostrils.
Why hold them in esteem?
This NOT a suggestion: it is a command (!) still warm from the tender lips of The Almighty Himself. Do what He says!
- PaulLv 74 weeks ago
Science is the study of the natural universe in natural terms. Supernatural/spiritual realities lie totally outside the realm of science, and science therefore cannot make any meaningful statements, pro or con, regarding such realities.
born again Christian biologist
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- Bulldog reduxLv 74 weeks ago
But if the Divine Being is to affect the physical world (i.e., the world we humans live in), those effects will necessarily be physical, and physical effects are testable by the scientific method. Of course, if you want to say that the Devine Being is a purely spiritual creature who doesn't affect the physical world, that's OK, but that's a pretty restrictive concept.
- EntropyLv 74 weeks ago
But you see, you're massively missing the point. It isn't just that we lack scientific evidence or perfect evidence...we lack ANY evidence of God. Depending on which religion you ascribe to, all we have are stories of (usually) indeterminate authorship written at a time when mankind was too primitive to understand naturalistic forces...and so made up stories to explain why the sun moved across the sky (Ra's Chariot) or why seasons exist (Demeter being sad that her daughter is in Hades) or why there are rainbows (YHWH promising never to destroy all humanity by flood...again...though other means are still options).
These stories don't constitute evidence of the gods referenced anymore than the Harry Potter books are evidence that Hogwarts exists. You say we can't measure God (not your exact words), but we could if we wanted us to. He could appear anytime he wanted. That he doesn't makes it seem like either he doesn't exist or he doesn't WANT us to know about him. It doesn't make a lot of sense that he WANTS worship, but then only communicates through such weak means that are open to interpretation and contradict other holy books and stories.
All we're asking is that before we start believing random stories, that you at least have ONE solid evidence data point. Now, if you had one, we could debate how good it was, and so on...but there at least would be SOME RATIONAL BASIS for your belief. Without even ONE solid piece of evidence with no naturalistic explanation, you've no reason to believe the myth you believe vs the one made up in another faith. Why are you Christian, and not Hindu? Purely by accident of where you were born. You didn't CHOOSE your faith (most likely - a few people do, but it's rare).
You say we can't understand God. Why not? Seems pretty simply as a concept. Omnipotent, Omniscient, vain enough to demand worship, cruel enough to punish those who don't worship him, yet somehow NEVER shows his face to ensure the worship he seems to demand. You may not appreciate the words I chose, but it's not hard to understand.
- gillieLv 74 weeks ago
Any real deity would have measurable effects on the world that could be studied. There's nothing. Stop pretending that your god is so mysterious he can't be discovered. In the Bible he walks in the garden and chats with his people, but the more people learned the further away God had to be moved. Now he's in some other dimension and is completely spiritual, even though the Bible doesn't describe anything like that. The God in the Bible has physical form, sits on a throne and looks down on earth from heaven.
- 4 weeks ago
I'm not an atheist and I agree with you 100%. It is irrational to believe in something you can't physically touch or see or even scientifically prove is real. You are absolutely right! But, that's where faith comes in. We know we can't see it or feel it physically but we still somehow know it's there. Plus, I refuse to believe that when we die we simply stop existing. There has to be something else. If not, why do we live at all?
- PyriformLv 74 weeks ago
"If atheists only believe in what can be proven and tested by the scientific method,"
Well, they don't, necessarily. In fact, I suspect that most don't in some senses. I believe that human life has a high value. Admittedly it is not so much a belief about an objective fact than it is a value belief, but an atheist could have all sorts of beliefs that don't involve gods.
"then how do they expect a divine being, assuming something like that exists (something we have never seen and does not take the shape of something we can comprehend), to be tested by the scientific method when it is outside of laws of physics, biology and all that we know?"
If this being is supposed to be able to manipulate the universe, in the way that most gods are, then it would be easy for it to demonstrate its existence. If prayers to some particular god were shown to have a demonstrable effect, for example, that would be good evidence for that god.
Of course a being that is outside everything we know might not want to provide any evidence for its existence, but then it can hardly blame us for not believing in it.
- rodcomLv 64 weeks ago
Evidence. There is no evidence of a deity existing to even test.
So blue dogs live underground on Pluto? Science cannot prove that they do not, but that does not mean that these animals do exist just because I made it up.